
I was recently introduced to a Shanghai blogger over here, who said the following in so many words:
"All or most foreigners in China are hoping China will fail." It wasn't clear whether he specifically meant the Olympic Games, or more broadly as economic failure, but the difference is only one of scale; the sentiment is basically the same.
In fairness to Shanghai Diaries, there are a certain number of foreigners here (from every corner of the world) who enjoy the run-down backwards parts of China for only one reason: it shows and reminds them of their own country's superiority. This is the case even with some people coming from countries arguably worse-off than China itself. So yes, for a certain number of foreigners here, the "failure" of China in any number of ways would probably serve to boost their own sense of self-worth. There's a chengyu for this, but it escapes me at present.
However. That certainly is not to say all (or even a great many) foreigners think like that. This is provable with a single simple fact: most foreigners living in China rely on the economic health of the country for their own livelihood. It doesn't matter if they're teaching, doing business, or studying, they all have interests dependent on the future safety and development of the country. So to off-handedly suggest most non-Chinese living here are secretly wishing for its collapse seems a little out in left field to me. For such an assertion to be remotely considerable, I would demand of him some evidence to the contrary.
Because of the lack of evidence, I suppose he made the statements after a quick analysis of the people he knows and from his own psychology --- plus a certain amount of desire to get people riled up and blog about him (hrm...). Who knows, but as for myself, I'm always hesitant to make such all-encompassing generalizations about groups of people: they're almost always flawed, and serve only to perpetuate old stereotypes that are better left to history with the conflicts they gave rise to. So my request of Shanghai Diaries is this: if you have a sentence beginning with "all", "most" or "every" then please also provide evidence in support of your claim.
Oh, and this gem: "The majority of people here don't like their life here." Look, if you don't like your life, change it, but don't involve half of Asia with your life-crisis. I love every minute I spend here, and while that doesn't mean I agree with everything going on politically, I AM willing to give China some slack.
And also, I enjoy your blog but dislike the Fox News-like "war room" feel you sometimes add to the issues. A cool head and a fair mind will solve almost anything.
I've got exams coming up very soon, so updates might be slow in coming for the next week or two. I'll try my best though, and please remember that I might not have time to respond to every e-mail I receive, but I can promise I do read them all.
Picture: Yeah.
Chris
18 comments:
I agree with you! Some foreigners just live in China to boost their own self-worth. A lot of them fail at life in their own country, some of them didn't even graduate from college,so teaching English in China becomes their only path othan working at Taco Bell in the US. What kind of special skills do they have that make them deserve a professional visa in China anyway? There are also a lot of wanna-be foreign DJs that make music that can't sell in their country, and they can only afford to live in China!
i watched the vid you posted in the blog, that guy is exaggerating too much. I dont think spitting, peeing and pooing is that common in Shanghai nowadays.
I live in America, definitely in many countries people dont act as civil after drinking!
i actually left this guy a comment 4 days ago, here is what i wrote to him:
hey mate, i'm a chinese guy who is currently studying in australia. i came here when i was 16 years old. so if anybody here think all chinese have been brain washed by chinese gov, maybe i'm the one who is different. as what i said i came to australia when i was 16 years old and now i have live here for almost 6 years, i think i understand the western thinking and share more western values. but u know what? after i came abroad i feel more understand of my country and i feel western guys really have so many misunderstanding of china!
firstly, australia is different from what i thought, when u walk along the street, there do have people show their middle finger to u just because u r asian. i have a few friends have been attacted by the local people, no matter u believe this or not ,but this is the truth. i think being atttact is much more serious than u c some chinese people shit in the street! but we still think(both aussie and chinese) australian's discrimination problems r much less serious than the other western countries. i never say lives in australia r tough and i never feel dispointed for australia. instead of that i really love this country because i believe there do have people nice here!
secondly, let;s go back to the dulocracy period. i believe in that period there do have lots of people kill people. i believe u watched the movie"brave heart"! in that movie the king of the country own every virgin;s first night. the king rape every virgin girls. as a western guy,, do u feel shame for that? because it is sort of ur history! lol, u must feel i'm an idiot when i ask u this question. of course u wont feel shame of that period because it is part of the history and that is just part of the process for u guys can have the human rights today and can live in a peaceful world today! so please think about china in the same way! china is developing! why we call china a developing country instead of a developed country? it's because china still have lots of problems need to change and need to improve. just like ur ancestor rape women, there r some chinese rude! so do u think u should have the idea to let olympic fall just because some chinese shit in the street and the chinese gov cant satisfied u? then we should kill all western guys because ur ancestor rape women! (is this ur logic?) of course not! i like white guys, black guys and i feel there r so many things we should learn from western guys: like: no shitting in the street. but maybe not the idea to destroy their olympic game!
i always tell my friends that what i feel about the western guy is: western guys r more magnanimous! but maybe u dont belong to this group people!
third: u r not a conscientious guy and u cant take the responsibilities of what u said! u said: there is no guys more want the olympic in china fall than the foreigners in china!!! i think this only reprent ur thinking but not other foreingers. go and ask chris! he has live in china for several years and ask him what he think about china's olympic game! maybe u will say he is not from canada after u listen to his thinkings.
forth: when u guys blaming china, blaming chinese policies. blaming chinese gov, blaming chinese lives. what i wanna to ask u is what kind of rights u have here to blame us?! have u ever feel shame when u blaming us? because when u say our media lies, ur media lies more. when u say we chinese dont have human rights, at the same time u even wanna to destroy our plympic game! r u giving us human rights?! when u blaming chinese lives r tough, my friends have being attacted by western guys in australia!
u guys said we f**ked tibet! so now i;m begging u guys. could u please just find one, even one, at least one evidence to say that we killed tibetans in this year!!! ur media showed u lots of pics to say that we chinese act violent to tibetans! but do please open ur eyes and look at these photos! the polices in the photos r indians, Nepali!!!!!!!!! however, u people still believe they r chinese! do indians look like us? or some of u r really nuts!!!!!!
u always say we dont have human rights! ok, i agree with u that we dont have same much human rights as u guys. but one thing u should think about is: if we really hate our gov and really hate our situation now, even u guys keep silent, we chinses will have revolution to destroy our gov! but the fact is different, when u ask human rights for us, we even hate u! not because we dont want human rights but because some of u r using human rights issues to make some other issues. ur politicians r smart, they r not purelly ask human rights for us!
u at least came to china! so when u go back to ur country i would like u to ask ur people how they think about china and i believe lots of them will think chinese r still have plaits and all of us r farmers, we stupid, never be educated and of course our country is communism! ( pls think about what looks communism in china?!) so we chinese always be judged by these people! these peopel always ask human rights for us! we thank u, u r really well-known!
u say chinese lives r tough, but we r changing. we give western world a chance to understand us and i dont know whether u r going to give us a chance to change or just simply destroy us! u said u wanna beijing olympic game fall and we forgive u and i believe most chinese wanna london olympic game success even they accroach our hong kong for 100 years!
@ Gao Yi,
When you watch western movies like "Brave heart" or "Lord of the ring" don't believe everything you see. It's just Fantasy. ;)
A long time ago, english people were blaming french king for raping virgins and french people were blaming british king for raping virgins. But, of course, none of it was true. Discrimination is often politically intended.
Kimik
to kimik:
maybe i used the wrong example. but what i wanna to explain is: both ur and my ancestors did some ferocious things, the things that the mordern people cant accept. but we dont feel shame for them because we know it';s part of the history and we know it's part of the process of the human's developing. same for a country, when we c lots of people in the street rude, we know the country still has lots problems need to change. but that is not the excuse for u to hate the country or make the country even worse!
To Chris:
Chris,我可能有时间在你BLOG里面说话语气过重,有点太具攻击性。特别是上次在回答你朋友对西藏问题的调查时我语气不是很好。如果你和你朋友觉得我很不友好的话,我向你们表示道歉。
因为在西方国家,我感觉到很多西方朋友对中国的误解很深,而且不知道悔改。所以有时间我很急噪,甚至生气。所以说话很不好听。但是我本身并不想让中国和西方对立!尤其是我在澳洲呆了这么长时间,我更觉得西方社会真的有很多东西需要我们学习。可是在我对西方国家有好感的同时,我也觉得有些人真的动机很不单纯,他们总是在制造事端!
我觉得你是一个真正在讨论问题的人,而不是别有用心的人。因为你不仅仅关心中国的政治和民主问题,你也热心于观察中国的灾害,教育,文化等一切其他的问题。而不像有些人在一直关心中国的反面新闻。像那个SHANGHAI BLOGGER。在中国发生这么大的地震灾害的时候,他对灾难一字不提,却一直在继续他的“反”中国演说!这种人我真的觉得很没有人性。你是一个理智的人,也很善良。我看了你之前的POST,看到你刚来中国的时候也很不适应,看到你说中国有很多人随地吐痰等等。我很能理解你的感受,也很谅解你作为一个西方发达文明国家来的留学生,到了一个相对差一些的环境里面有很多东西接受不了。不过你还是喜欢上了中国的生活,真的是难能可贵!为什么你能在一个平均国民素质不是很高的国家里面还能开心的去接触这里的文化和社会,因为你有理智,热情和真诚。所以在听说你想要移居到一个法语国家的时候我相信你也会喜欢上那个国家的一切。社会更需要你这种博爱的人。所以祝你的一切都伴随着好运!(我是不是把你夸的太大了???哈哈哈啊哈哈)
(另外:我写的中文是不是有一定的难度?你可以拿我写的东西作为材料去学习中文。哈哈哈哈哈哈)
To the above commenter Gao Yi,
I would like to address one particular point you made, but I do not neccessarily support the views of the blogger your comment is directed at.
My background is French/Irish/Ukrainian, so the king in Brave Heart is not a part of my history. Regardless, let's fully assume for the moment that your reference relates to me. I would accept it as being part of my cultural history, but I would not feel any personal guilt for a crime that I did not commit.
Let's not forget, in past centuries, many rulers and governments have done some terrible things, and I'm positive you know that. If you feel I should be ashamed for a western ruler's royal decree in centuries past, what kind of shame do you feel in regards to your cultural history?
To me, your view implies that regardless of when and how a persons lineage migrated into a western culture, they are accountable for that cultures past.
Finally, your comments seem to be directed at me, and others, who never asked the original blogger to speak for them. Are you really that dumb to think that just because he claims to be the voice of foreigners, that he really is?
I think it's sad your friends were attacked. I have no idea why, or how, if it was provoked, or not. I have no experience living in Australia, and I can't speak for them simply because we both speak English.
You took the opportunity to express how Chinese nationals are treated elsewhere in the world. Your point I assume is that that they were attacked for being Chinese. That would be a terrible thing. As is a black skinned foreigner in Zhengzhou holding the hand of his female Chinese friend in a bar for the purpose of escorting her across the club floor to meet one of his friends which resulted in a violent situation started by a group of Chinese nationals who conveyed their disapproval of their apperant relationship. The encounter became physical, and eventually they had to escape the club and nearly 100 angry Chinese that had gathered outside. I ask you, should I blame you for this racist altercation because you are Chinese? I don't think so. Don't pretend for a moment that Chinese are the ultimate victims of racism in the world. It's a poison we all share.
And finally, Gao Yi, you said "we know the country still has lots problems need to change. but that is not the excuse for u to hate the country or make the country even worse!" ...
You again seem to imply that the original blogger speaks for the rest of us. He doesn't.
So if you ask me, I agree, China has problems, and needs to change, but I also feel that way about my country (Canada).
...
I would prefer being asked my opinion before being persecuted.
Also, as for your Tibet comment.
I can not access any information about it from within China without having my internet connection disabled for 30 minutes. So I am unable to form an opinion on the issue you so amazingly accused me of already having.
As for your comment about Chris, Chris3443 (youtube) chriswip.blogspot.com, I like that you gave Chris's comments and opinions a chance, but what of the rest of us.
I think you needed more time reviewing your comment before posting it. It's clear English is not your first language, but I do think your opinion was clear.
to ~ Michael S. Wasylyniuk:
firstly thank you for leaving a comment to me. but i think u really misunderstood me or maybe i didnt present my thinking clearly. when i say western guys, i didnt mean all western guys. if i mean all of the western guys i will say "all western guys" like shanghai blogger said:" all foreigners in china want beijing olympic fail". when i was angry with some western guys i mean the western guys who have a special purpose which is simply foul China.
for the example of "brave heart". i have already explained that i may used the wrong example but it doesnt disturb what i want to explain.
i think u didnt read my last comment carefully. i didnt say western guys should feel shame about their history. instead of that i mean we all should never feel shame of our history. because it is a part of process of the world's developing.
for the discrimination problems. well, i accept that their do have some chinese guys discriminate black guys. and i never say that the discrimination problems r only in western countries. and also about the black guy being attact in zhengzhou from what u said, there is some other reasons which i dont want to tell today. it is too sensitive. however the reason for me to mention my friends being attact in australia in the shanghai blogger's blog is just to let the shanghai blogger to know that even my friends being attact by australians, we still love australia. so seeing people shit in the street shouldnt be the reason for him to want beijing olympic game fail!
for my friends being attact in australia, what i wanna to say is: these things r true, but i dont have the evidences to prove these. what i can tell u is one of my friend was beated by a aussie guy when the aussie guy got off the train for no reason! my friend got coma after that. another friend of mine be spit by a aussie guy from a car to his face when he walk along the street. the third friend be attacted by three aussie guys using a bucket that full of water covered his head when he walked home after finished his work in a winter night. there r some more stories. but maybe u dont believe these or maybe u still think it was provoked.
so when i use the example of discrimination issues, i didnt meant to blame western world have this problem and we dont. i was just using this as a tool to explain that people shoud be caritative.
u said i need more time reviewing my comment before posting it. i think u r right, but i think i only need to review it for my grammar problems, not for my opinions.
Gao Yi,
In response to Chris' post on Sunday, June 08, 2008. You said
hahaha i dont believe her. that must be her problem! i have lots of australian friends. once a russian guy say we chinese r shit and we always attact other countries, like tibet. then my aussie friends even wanna to beat him for me! it;s really depends on how u act to them. if u r friendly then they will be friendly to u either!
Based on your views posted today Thursday, June 12, 2008, and Sunday, June 08, 2008. It would seem that you can cry wolf, yet imply that the wolf supports you against the very thing you accuse the wolf of. How can you justify this? It feels like you approve of atrocities if they are not directed at you, but at people who have an opinion that differs from yours.
A number of negative labels flow through my mind, but I will refrain from using any to define you until after you address this situation you've presented us with.
"hahaha i dont believe her. that must be her problem! i have lots of australian friends. once a russian guy say we chinese r shit and we always attact other countries, like tibet. then my aussie friends even wanna to beat him for me! it;s really depends on how u act to them. if u r friendly then they will be friendly to u either!"
this is definitely what i wrote. but what can this prove? i wrote "hahhaha" to laugh at the girl who said all western guys r not friendly! i said my aussie friends wanna to beat the russian guy but what to do with me? i can have two behaviours after my aussie friends telling this: 1. i say to my aussie friends: go for it. just beat the f$$king russian guy! 2. i tell my friends: thank you mate, but this is really not good to beat a guy. even he is rude, we'd better to explain to him instead of beat him!
did i tell u what i choose? so please take back the words that u wanna to describe me. and also one thing is important when we debate: dont give assault and battery! i love debate and i cant accept personal attact. if u want to do this then we'd better to stop the debate
dear Michael S. Wasylyniuk:
as i just read ur blog and i c u moved to chris's apartment. so u r in zhengzhou too. then i may meet u at the end of the year because i live in luohe which is a small city not far from zhengzhou and i told chris that i will meet him after i go back to china and i will invite him to visit my city. so u'd better be friendly to me then i can consider if i invite u either! i wanna to tell u that luohe is a beautiful city with so many nice food! it is the city of food! if u r not friendly to me then i should tell u that i'm really strong and i have lots of muscle! and u'd better dont to c chris at the end of the year, if u do, maybe i will meet u then! so, it is dangerous to u!(c, this is the example to prove that i'm violent and i approve of atrocities if people are not directed at me. lol)!!! hahahhaha
one more thing, i should learn english from u. because i think ur english is really good. like what u wrote:"It would seem that you can cry wolf, yet imply that the wolf supports you against the very thing you accuse the wolf of." i really dont understand this sentence. seriously! i know it must be some not good sentence but i dont understand it well. please explain it to me. thank you
Michael S. Wasylyniuk:
for my aussie friends who want to beat the russian guy for me, they r strong too. they work with me together. they r not from my uni. we worked in a factory called " waverley party hire" and they can move 20 big chairs one time! so they r really strong and big. they always talking "f##k" and it's not hard to imagine these guys want to beat a guy! so i'm not lying to u. but i really like my these friends because they r straight and forthright.
dear Michael S. Wasylyniuk:
r u going to keep silent or u r busy in writing a huge amount of words to debate me? i'm tied today and i have to do some study. if u have further things to say. just bring them on and i will be glad to read them and debate with u. buy dont write too many because i really dont have so much time to debate with u. my exams will finished on 24th and u will move again on 25th. so maybe after 25th of this month when u moved to a nice big house, sit in a comfortable chair, facing a beautiful monitor, then we can start the debate again. and also please dont forget to explain the sentence for me. thank you and have a good night!
ur loyalty debater: gao yi
Good response Chris! I noticed you commenting on Shanghai Diarie--interesting how things go this fast nowadays...I got to know this vlog from Christine Lu, the Chinabusinessnetwork anchor. She interviewed him as a foreign enterpreneur. She mentioned his vlog is, as quoted as "fresh perspective". (there are many foriegers living China act like Aric, but Christine lives in US...)So upon his comments about China, Christine asked "what kept you in China". his answer was striaight and simple, he didn't go to college, and came to China to check things out and being in Shanghai basically just for getting a prefix "Shanghai" producer, which could get him the attention from the west that he usually wouldn't have got.
It is fun to see so many responses on this blog, but I also hope all the commentors could go to his interview, then you will know the background of Aric and it woulnd't be a surprise for him to talk in the way he does now.
http://thechinabusinessnetwork.com/Profiles-and-Perspectives/Interview-With-Aric-S-Queen-Executive-Producer-Shanghai-Diaries.html
Hello Gao Yi,
r u going to keep silent or u r busy in writing a huge amount of words to debate me?
Chris (my roomate) had to use his computer. I did not return to it that night.
My roomate is not Chris P. of chriswip.blogspot.com, it is another Chris. Regardless, I will be working with Chris P. in mid July. So perhaps we will one day meet. I think it would be enjoyable. It's often difficult to find people who aren't afraid to ask questions and speak their mind. I look forward to meeting you.
"It would seem that you can cry wolf, yet imply that the wolf supports you against the very thing you accuse the wolf of."
The concept of "crying wolf", comes from an old tale about a boy, aptly naming the story "The Boy Who Cried Wolf".
One reference to this story sometimes implies that someone who calls for help when it's not needed too often can find that when they truly need help, no one will care.
Another reference to this story (also the one I was using) is that by crying wolf, one is crying "foul", which by this usage (and my intent)was that of a sports ruling.
So, my usage implied that I asked you to justify your opinion, as I suspected you of having a double standard or a blind eye on racism.
You said "u said i need more time reviewing my comment before posting it. i think u r right, but i think i only need to review it for my grammar problems, not for my opinions."
I said the same thing "It's clear English is not your first language, but I do think your opinion was clear."
You said did i tell u what i choose? so please take back the words that u wanna to describe me. and also one thing is important when we debate: dont give assault and battery!"
No, you didn't say.
I can't take back something I haven't given. I said I wouldn't describe you yet, because I didn't have enough information.
As I had said "A number of negative labels flow through my mind, but I will refrain from using any to define you until after you address this situation you've presented us with."
I can't comprehend how you feel I have assaulted you in dialogue.
G'luck on your exams.
When are you coming back to China?
Michael S. Wasylyniuk:
haha , i'm coming back at the end of the year or maybe the beginning of next year. i will difinitely go to zhengzhou because i need to shopping there, so i think i will meet u guys.
good luck to ur life in China and by the way: i lied to u, i'm short and not strong at all. and also i have a baby face! hahahah so pls dont be afraid!
Oh, I didn't expect you had any intention of having a physical confrontation.
Likely I wont leave Zz to visit your city. I don't travel far from wherever home is, but I will definitely meet you when you get here.
Let's stop chatting on this comment thread. Let's argue about whatever new thing Chris brings up on a more recent post. Sound good?
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